Tag Archives: Hoka

Hoka lost its focus

Hoka One One has lost its focus. In the first enumeration of 3 different shoes they made the finest there was. And promptly messed them up. The original Clayton, Clifton and Bondi were truly shoes to behold (the stories say). The one I was able to buy was the original Clayton. It came in at 7.8 ounces and is softer than the Bondi 5 at 12 ounces. The Clifton came in at the same weight and was softer still.

In the Bondi 5 it is firm and responsive. Its supposed to be soft and cushyThey completely forgot what they were supposed to be making. But maybe their mission statement is: “Sell as many shoes as possible at all costs!” And not: “Make the best shoe possible!” 

And that was the problem. With the Clifton being the best shoe ever made, there was no need for the Tracer, the Clayton or the Bondi. It was as light as any of them and softer than all! Hoka had no interest in satisfying the customer, they were about satisfying sales. That one shoe made 3 other models unnecessary. They could have stopped right there as far as neutral road shoes go. Mission accomplished.

Hoka isn’t the only company that goes backward in its shoe development, I saw the same thing with New Balance and the original Zante. In that case it was even more stark. The Zante was the lightest, the softest and the cheapest ($100). I was able to nab that one too on clearance for $60 bucks. New Balance’s 1080, which is supposed to be their “plush” ride, is in reality only their heaviest, and costliest at $150 dollars.

So there we come to it. The problem. The bottom line. You can’t continue to churn profits each quarter just making the lightest, softest, cheapest shoe out there. There’s no marketing buzz in that. You need the “new and improved” model each spring! Even though in reality all they are doing is making shoes harder, heavier and more expensive. 

[The only one who seems to be improving their shoe is Brooks. And that’s only with the Ghost and Glycerin line. The rest of their lineup is screwed up, but the Ghost is a shoe. The 10 is a dramatic improvement over the 6 & 8, and the 11 is supposed to up the game even more.]

(I ran into a review of the original Clifton at Sole Review of original Clifton . You can see from the score box its about the only shoe that hit the highest score for softness. In a men’s size 11 US they said it came in at 7.9 ounces! Unbelievable! The shoe had 3 minor flaws that could have been corrected without adding any weight. The toe box needed to be widened just a smidge. The tongue needed just a bit of padding. The sharp heel bevel needed to be shortened and squared off a hair to make it more stable. That’s it. They would have had the perfect shoe for eternity. Instead they chose to play this “harder and heavier” game. One year its this, the next year its that…)

[On an unrelated note, I was experiencing tight/sore hips and found some great exercises at Runners Connect that really made a difference after just completions (1 day on, 1 day off). Can’t imagine how much better they’ll be after a few weeks.]

Ghost 10 & Bondi 5?

Did I finally find a shoe rotation with the Brooks and the Hoka? Nobody has wasted more money in the eternal (infernal) shoe search than I have. What an interesting couple of weeks shoe hunting. I think I finally learned my lesson about buying shoes online based on someone else’s review. That is a fool’s errand. Its like most times when someone hands out advice on any subject, the advice is based on their own parameters, not the needs of the one seeking help.

A trip to Scheels shed a lot of light on the subject. The Under Armour HOVR Phantom showed some potential, but walking around the carpeted shoe area tells you nothing about how a shoe is going to run. It just doesn’t have the street cred that the Bondi does, which they were out of. The same went for the Asics Gel Nimbus 20, maybe, but to spend $110 on a maybe? There needs to be an independent and objective scoring system on running shoes. Not based on the reviews of people in the business of selling shoes.

Since they didn’t have the Bondi we came back to JAX in Ames. There was the Golden Shoe, the Bondi 6 for $150! But there was also the Bondi 5 on clearance for $119. Hmm… The 5 felt as good if not better than the 6 and its $31 bucks cheaper so I went with the 5 (I looked it over good to make sure it wasn’t a return). Until you run in a shoe several times you really can’t make much of an assessment. And with the “cheap” shoes at $100 bucks and the pricier ones in the $180 range, its an expensive crapshoot.

Picking them up on their way out at clearance is really the only way to go. By the end of a shoes model year, the verdict is generally in. The price has come down to make room for the new model. Its a win-win. Out of the box on a Sunday morning I ran 90 almost incident free minutes. There was a slight burning sensation on the ball of my right foot. Was it the untested running socks? Was it the shoe? Was it a quirky one-time issue with my foot? We’ll find out over the weeks and months ahead.

Hopefully I’m through searching for the “perfect” shoe. I have a couple that are quite good enough for me. The Bondi comes it at 11.5 ounces for the right shoe, and 12 ounces for the left shoe. Not close to the advertised 10.4 for the Bondi 5. Which is okay with me. What’s a few ounces in a shoe, when you’re carrying an extra 20 pounds around the midsection? The thing I noticed right off was that your foot feels well supported and protected in the Bondi. Not some gimmicky thing with gel in the heel or a sock like elastic around the ankle.

With any luck next year I’ll be able to pick up the Ghost 11 and the Bondi 6 on clearance and the manufacturers won’t have mucked them up too bad. Its crazy but for me the Ghost 10 is a softer shoe than the pricier Bondi. The Bondi ride isn’t harsh at all, but its nowhere nears the fabled “running on marshmallows” softness some reviewers talk of. The Bondi might have a smoother gait transition (meta-rocker). One thing I noticed immediately in the store is that the Bondi 6 is dramatically more breathable than the 5.

Another interesting aspect of the two shoes is an aspect brought up on a YouTube video by a Connecticut College cross country coach. He was saying that it is best for your feet to rotate between 2 or 3 pairs of shoes during the week as your feet/legs will benefit from the differences. Its all about avoiding repetitive stress injuries by mixing it up for your body. Differences in cushion, arch support and heel to toe drop are among those aspects. He said mixing it up in a drop range of 4 – 12 mm is good. In this case the Hoka has a 4 mm drop, the Brooks a 12 mm.

[The Bondi 5 is a strange shoe. After a week of running in it I’ve decided its not hard, its not soft, it just is. As I noted above its weight coming in at 12 ounces is actually heavier than my leather Hoka Bondi Walker! (The leather walker weighs just 10.9 ounces) How the heck is that possible?? The alleged “softness” of the Bondi is all based on a sustained marketing focus, not reality.]

Also of note is the article on socks in the August Runner’s World. Unbeknownst to me was the premise that you do not want cotton socks for running. They just hold the sweat and keep your foot damp. What you want is the polyester in socks like Balega and Feetures that “wick” the moisture away from your skin. And trying out these new socks this past week I tend to agree. I think I definitely like the thinner socks here in the summer, and will relegate the thicker socks for cool weather. Walmart has less expensive versions that seem to do well as opposed to spending $15 a pair for the name brands.

Who can you trust? Running with wolves…

Never again! You drop $150 on a couple of pairs of running shoes (last years models on clearance) and find out after the first run they are crap. It wouldn’t be so bad, but you’ve been doing it off and on for 5 years. Ghost 8, Kinvara 6, 1080v6…. the list goes on and on. “Well dummy, you need to do a little research before you buy!” Good God, do you have any idea how many magazine articles I read and how many YouTube reviews I’ve watched?? The bottom line is most running shoes cost between $120 to $180, and they are selling us crap!

Runner’s World ironically just had a list of 6 shoes that were “plush rides” (read cushioned). I know for a fact the New Balance 1080 is at best medium soft like Sole Review said. I bought it! I ran in it! I know! Its not a soft shoe its a joke! If Runner’s World think its a soft shoe they either are lying or need to get in a new line of work! Their original Zante, a lightweight shoe, is softer then the “plush” 1080! Its insane! Never again. I will never buy another Saucony or New Balance. Brooks? Maybe… you’ve stiffed me on so many shoes…. Here’s a list of the absolute dogs:

  1. Brooks Ghost 8
  2. Brooks Glycerin 11
  3. Saucony Kinvara 6
  4. Brooks Pure Flow 6
  5. New Balance 1080v6
  6. New Balance 1080v7
  7. Adidas Supernova M
  8. Hoka One One Bondi 5

Runner’s World reviews are worthless. They push a certain group of manufacturers and leave out the most obvious ones (in the above mentioned list of plush shoes they don’t include a single Hoka). On YouTube there’s a guy called ‘Ginger Runner’ (Ethan Newbury I believe), who seemed to have a fact based point system, but cost me a hundred bucks when he recommended a brick called the Kinvara 6! Fellow YouTuber Jamison Michael isn’t bad, but you have to read between the lines. He’s evidently getting free shoes too and doesn’t want to be overly honest.

One of the most glaring examples is the toe box on the Clifton 5 and the Bondi 6. Watching the You Tube reviews you’ll hear the reviewer say, “For the longtime buyer of this shoe you’ll be glad to know Hoka widened the toe box…” After 6 years they get the toe box right?? We pay $120 to $180 for most of these running shoes, and it takes them 6 years to get the toe box right?? Saucony is one of the worst for this, with their narrow little torture chambers.

Its too expensive to run with these wolves, they will eat you alive! There’s got to be a cheaper way to find a good shoe.    Sole Review

Zante vs Clayton

Being a running shoe junkie you become something of a shoe expert by default. You can’t help it! You see the good, the bad and the ugly of the shoe world real quick. Two of the premier running shoe makers are New Balance and Hoka. I happened to luck out and get the original versions of both the Zante and the Clayton pictured above. Originals are good to get because invariably shoe companies make a very good shoe and then muck it up with “improvements”. I have yet to find a shoe where V2 wasn’t heavier and harder than V1.

As far as weight, both the Zante and the Clayton come in at 7.8 ounces (in a men’s 9 1/2). Very good for shoes that are also nicely cushioned. For the casual runner they will take you as far as you want to go. I wasn’t particularly enamored with either shoe starting off. I’d been running in shoes that were a little more cushioned, in the 9.2 – 10.8 ounce range. Shoes like the Ghost, Clifton, Air Zoom Span, Glycerin, NB 1080.

Supposedly lightweight shoes like the Kinvara and Pure Flow turned out to be a waste of money. Hard, tight, uncomfortable shoes. The Zante and the Clayton came in lighter and infinitely more comfortable for the feet. By wearing the bad ones, I began to see the virtues of the good ones. The Zante has the most unique cushioning. Its outsole and insole do a wonderful job of protecting your foot from the pounding, but you retain incredible feel for the road.

The Clayton is nicely cushioned, but you lose feel for the road by being slightly more protected from sharp underfoot protrusions. I suppose I would give a slight edge to the Zante as it just feels nicer on the foot. There’s nothing wrong with switching between the two either! And perhaps best of all, by getting them after the new models were out, I got the Zante for $65 and the Clayton for $104! Arch support? Slight edge to Zante. Tongue padding? Slight edge to Zante. Collar padding? Edge to Zante.

None of this is to say that this pair of lightweight, nicely cushioned shoes are the only way to go. What I am saying is that in their class I can’t imagine a better shoe (for the neutral runner). For my tastes, I’m starting to think my feet prefer the maximum cushioned ride of the Ghost 10. I’m also waiting to try the Bondi 5. I’m willing to give up 2 1/2 ounces in shoe weight to pamper my feet. But for those other times…